Similar Worldwide Rock Layers: What do they really tell us?

To begin is some general questions in brief with the research that talks about that question. Then I have my writing on the topic from the Naturalistic view and the Creation view.


Is this right? Do you evolutionists agree with your position? I tried to write it as you believe it. Do you have any disagreements or concerns or additions?





Similar Worldwide Rock Layers

a.       Folds and Bends that indicate the rock layers were soft all at once.

                                                              i.      http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v7/n4/bent-rock-layers

b.      Jumbled fossils, full mass fossil beds are evidence of a large flood.

c.       Large layers spread across continents.

                                                              i.      http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v3/n3/transcontinental-rock-layers#fnList_1_1

d.      Evidence of large strong water currents (cross-bedding) throughout rock layers

e.      If rock layers formed slowly over long periods of time, why are they as consistent as they are? Rock layers would not have formed this nicely and completely over long periods of time, if they did, we ought to see more erosion in the layers. A quick burial and formation of layers makes more sense than ancient seas at different times all over the world.

f.        Creation Resources:

                                                              i.      http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n4/geologic-evidences-part-one

1.       Follow this intro to the other articles.

                                                            ii.      http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/cfl/how-fast

                                                          iii.      http://www.creationevidence.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=49

                                                           iv.      http://www.icr.org/article/242/107/

                                                             v.      http://www.icr.org/article/5833/

                                                           vi.      Geology examples and overview - http://creation.com/geology-and-the-young-earth

g.       Evolution Resources

                                                              i.      http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/geology/leveson/core/topics/time/froshlec8.html

                                                            ii.      http://www.prehistoricplanet.com/news/index.php?id=48

                                                          iii.      http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/env99/env99396.htm

                                                           iv.      http://www.necsi.edu/projects/evolution/evidence/layers/evidence_layers.html

Title:  Similar Worldwide Rock Layers by Brian Mariani and others

 

Introduction:

Rock layers are levels of sediment that build up over time. They look like bands and they usually run horizontally, but can sometimes be slanted or vertical due to its compaction and formation being on an angle like sand dunes or due to seismic activity. In rock layers, fossils can be found giving evidence of the past. How did the rock layers really form? How fast did they form? How many rock layers are there? How do the rock layers compare all over the world? What causes their deformation?

 

Naturalistic/Evolutionary Answer:

 

Rock layers are formed by many seasonal flood deposits, by volcanic deposition, and by sediment deposition, especially at the bottom of lakes or large ancient seas. Volcanic material and/or sediments build up and cover the earth and rock layers are created by wind or by water when enough sediments are built up creating pressure on lower layers.[i]  A rock layer will cover dead and living animals and plants. 

The amount of lime or cementing agent is used in the sediment mixture will determine how long it will take to turn into rock. If there is a lot of lime it may take only a few years, if there is little to none, then pressure and hot water have to pack the sediment into rock and that might take “many thousands of years.” This is part of why different rocks have a higher or lower hardness.[ii] Volcanic rocks could form within minutes.

The age of the fossil can be determined by its depth below the surface, the deeper the fossil, the older the age.  Older rock layers have simpler, less evolved organisms than higher, younger rock layers.[iii] This is not “an abstract diagram: this is the actual record of the earth's crust, recorded in rocks around the world…Since fossils progress from fish at the bottom to humans at the top, we have clear evidence that life evolved through time.”[iv]

 Occasionally in the fossil layers, there are unconformities where there are missing layers in one region. Those missing layers may not have formed in that area at that time or they did form, but were consequently eroded away.[v]

 

Creation Answer:

“Evolutionists and creationists agree: the ideal conditions for forming most fossils and fossil-bearing rock layers are flood conditions. The debate is just whether it was many “little floods” over a long time, or mostly the one big Flood of Noah’s time.”[vi]

Go out and find a piece of concrete and try bending it. This is one of the problems for old rock layers all over the world in that hardened rock will crack and break when pushed or pulled. But we see smoothly bent rock layers all over the world.[vii]

This could be done if the layers (millions of years worth) were soft all at the same time or if the layers were under extreme heat and pressure their shape could deform without breaking. The problem with the latter view is that the pressure and temperature would have metamorphosized and changed the rock, but these examples of bent layers are still sedimentary rock layers. The best explanation is that they were soft at the same time and laid down nearly at the same time and uplifted at the same time. This is a massive geological event consistent with a global flood.[viii]

Rock layers are different from each other based on their composition, temperature and how fast or slow their flood current is. In some layers, you have very fine grains of sediments and in other layers, there large boulders as big as cars, which means that a fast current would have had to carry those huge boulders. From their view, evolutionists can’t explain these boulders.

As different currents are swirling during the time of the flood, you would have different layers (think of them like pancakes) formed even in different places (offset pancakes). This is why there are often missing layers in one region but there in order in a different region.

Ph.D. Geologist Steven A. Austin says that “Every continent contains layers of sedimentary rocks that span vast areas. Many of these layers can even be traced across continents.” There are “six megasequences (very thick, distinctive sequences of sedimentary rock layers) that can be traced right across North America.”[ix] Some of these sequences include layers like the Tapeats Sandstone that covers most of North America and even beyond, and chalk beds that stretch across a large part of Europe and into the Middle East, and the Coal Bed that stretches through much of North America as well.[x]

Other evidences that point to a global flood are the rapidly buried fossils (some even “misplaced” or “out of place” fossils with reference to the evolutionary timeline[xi]), jumbled-up mass fossil beds, sea creature fossils high above sea level, rapid or no erosion between strata, sediments in rock layers have been transported long distances, and the layers appear to be laid down in rapid succession (polystrate fossils lie vertical through “millions of years” of deposition).[xii] The global flood would have been perfect conditions for making rock layers. 

 

What the Bible Says: Genesis 6-7

 

“Rocks and Layers” accessed 5:14 P.M. 10/24/12 http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/fossils/rocks-layers.html[i]

 

“CEM Research and Polystrate fossils” accessed 8:06 P.M.  11/11/12 http://www.creationevidence.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=49

 

Pictures to add: Worldwide rock layers map, Tapeats Sandstone layer map, Grand Canyon and other Bands, Pancake pictures, Polystrate Fossils, Boulders in Layers, Bent Layers, Geologic column

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[i] Shlomiya Bar-Yam, Fossil Layers, New England Complex Systems Institute, http://www.necsi.edu/projects/evolution/evidence/layers/evidence_layers.html, accessed October 10, 2013.

[ii] Bob Avakian, Time to Form Sedimentary Rocks, February 2009, Newton: Ask a Scientist, U.S. Department of Energy Office of Science, http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/env99/env99396.htm, accessed October 10, 2013.

[iii] Rock Layers: Timeline of Life on Earth, Prehistoric Planet, PaleoClones, LLC, http://www.prehistoricplanet.com/news/index.php?id=48, accessed October 10, 2013.

[iv] Rock Layers: Timeline of Life on Earth, Prehistoric Planet, PaleoClones, LLC, http://www.prehistoricplanet.com/news/index.php?id=48, accessed October 10, 2013.

[v] David J. Leveson, Relative Age: Determining Relative Age From The Rock Record, 2006, http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/geology/leveson/core/topics/time/froshlec8.html, accessed October 10, 2013.

[vi] Dr. Gary Parker, Creation: Facts of Life, How Fast?, January 1, 1994, http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/cfl/how-fast, accessed October 10, 2013.

[vii] A Pocket Guide to…Best Evidences: Science and the Bible refute millions of years, Answers in Genesis – US, 2013.

[viii] A Pocket Guide to…Best Evidences: Science and the Bible refute millions of years, Answers in Genesis – US, 2013.

[ix] Andrew A. Snelling, Ph.D., Transcontinental Rock Layers: Flood Evidence Number Three, May 7, 2008, Answers in Genesis, http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v3/n3/transcontinental-rock-layers#fnList_1_1, accessed October 10, 2013.

L. L. Sloss, “Sequences in the Cratonic Interior of North America,” Geological Society of America Bulletin 74 (1963): 93–114.

[x] Andrew A. Snelling, Ph.D., Transcontinental Rock Layers: Flood Evidence Number Three, May 7, 2008, Answers in Genesis, http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v3/n3/transcontinental-rock-layers#fnList_1_1, accessed October 10, 2013.

[xi] Dr. Gary Parker, Creation: Facts of Life, How Fast?, January 1, 1994, http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/cfl/how-fast, accessed October 10, 2013.

[xii] Andrew A. Snelling, Ph.D., Geologic Evidences for the Genesis Flood: Part 1: An Overview, September 18, 2007, Answers in Genesis, http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n4/geologic-evidences-part-one, accessed October 10, 2013.

CEM Research and Polystrate Fossils, Creation Evidence Museum of Texas, http://www.creationevidence.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=49, accessed October 10, 2013.

Index Fossils: How old are they?

To begin is some general questions in brief with the research that talks about that question. Then I have my writing on the topic from the Naturalistic view and the Creation view.


Is this right? Do you evolutionists agree with your position? I tried to write it as you believe it. Do you have any disagreements or concerns or additions?



Index Fossils

a.       Index Fossils are used to date rock layers. The rock layer a fossil is in dates the fossil. This is circular reasoning and based on assumptions. How do we know how old something is?

                                                               i.      http://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/fossils/dating/

b.      “Are the index fossils a reliable way to date rock layers over billions of years of history if scientists can’t agree on the classification of living creatures today?”

                                                               i.      http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/ee2/geologic-column

c.       Common index fossils include shelled organisms like Ammonites, corals, nanofossils (microscopic fossils), trilobites, mollusks and more.

                                                               i.      http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/dinosaurs/glossary/IndexFossils.shtml

d.      Is the geologic column reliable?

                                                               i.      http://www.icr.org/article/242/107/

                                                             ii.      http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/change/deeptime/

                                                            iii.      http://www-tc.pbs.org/americanfieldguide/teachers/fossils/fossils.pdf

                                                           iv.      http://www.putnamscienceonline.com/fossils.htm

e.      Fossil ranges (where they are found) are increasing with more and more fossils being found.

                                                               i.      http://creation.com/the-fossil-record

f.        There have been “misplace” or “out of place” fossils in the fossil record.

                                                               i.      http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/cfl/how-fast

g.       Index Fossil Dating is not consistent with Radiometric Dating. Can either be trusted?

                                                               i.       Can we trust radiometric dating? (see section on Radiometric Dating)

                                                             ii.      http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/cm/v22/n2/geology

h.      There are many index fossils that they used to say pointed to millions of years ago that were found alive today. These are called living fossils.

                                                               i.      The Coelacanth, Gingko Trees, tuatara, lepidocaris crustacean, Metasequoia conifer tree, neopilina mollusk, lingual brachiopod, trilobite?, algae, and many more

1.       http://www.icr.org/article/774/

2.       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_fossil

3.       http://www.halleethehomemaker.com/2011/03/creation-lazarus-taxa-come-forth/

 

Title:  Index Fossils by Brian Mariani and others

 

Introduction:

                An index fossils is a common, widely distributed fossil that is typically found in the same geologic layers or range.[i] It can then be used to give a relative age of rock layers and other fossils since they know what layer it usually comes from and therefore how old it is.

                Index fossils are mainly found in sedimentary rock. How old are they? Can we trust their estimated ages? Are they consistently found in the same place? Are index fossils being found alive today?

 

Naturalistic/Evolutionary Answer:

                “Often, the layers of rock can be dated by the types of fossils they contain... Scientists have determined the relative times of appearance and disappearance of many kinds of organisms from the location of their fossils within the sedimentary rock layers.”[ii]

The fossils preserved in the fossil record show the history and evolution of organisms throughout time. “The stretch of geologic history is commonly referred to as “deep time.”” By charting the geologic layers and their fossils, we can understand the history of the earth better and the process of evolution better. The oldest rock is estimated at over 4 billion years old and the oldest fossils being about 3.5 billion years old. The history of life can be charted from evidence in the fossil record as follows: little bacteria to algae to soft bodied organisms to an explosion of life called the Cambrian explosion to land plants and fishes to amphibians to reptiles to mammals and birds to finally everything that exists today including humans.[iii]

Common index fossils include shelled organisms like Ammonites, brachiopods, graptolites, corals, nanofossils (microscopic fossils), trilobites, mollusks and more.[iv]

 

Creation Answer:

                “The order of the fossil record can best be explained by hydrological sorting during Noah’s flood.[v]  Currents direct the different sediment types to where they will be laid down. Animals often move in herds, flocks, or groups and thus you will find similar organisms with similar organisms.

Some animals could run and climb from tidal waves for longer or fly for longer before being submerged by the catastrophic flood. Because of these abilities we see evidence for the order in the fossil record.

                Index fossils are not only found deep in sediment but some have been found still living to this day. An example of a living index fossil is the Coelacanth. This is a fish that is found in 70 million year old rocks. This fish was thought to have gone into extinction at that time and so we can date other things to about 70 million years ago, but now they are found in the Pacific Ocean. So now we can’t be sure if an organism next to a Coelacanth is 70 million years old or 10 million years old or 10 years old.

Other living fossils include the gingko tree, graptolites (300 million years old), “the tuatara (supposedly extinct since the Cretaceous Period until found still living in New Zealand), the Lepidocaris crustacean (only found as fossils in Devonian rocks), the Metasequoia conifer tree (thought extinct for the past 20 million years), the Neopilina mollusk (supposedly extinct for 280 million years), the lingula brachiopod ("extinct" since the Ordovician), and even the trilobite (chief index fossil of the even more ancient Cambrian Period).” Algae that is supposedly in 3.4 billion year old rocks still exist today...are those rocks really 3.4 billion years old?

Search “living fossil” on the internet and the list goes on and on for more examples. There is simply abundant evidence that living organisms today are practically identical to fossilized grandparents of “millions of years ago” if not “billions of years ago.” This is evidence that no evolution has taken place in those organisms.[vi]

Index fossils are the primary method of dating something. Often there are huge inconsistencies between dating based on rock layer and index fossils as compared to radiometric dating methods.[vii]

Scientists study fossils (including index fossils) and claim that evolution happens from one fossil to another, but currently there is much confusion over what a “species” actually is. A snail with a different color or shape to its shell could be a totally different species. This is simply variety within the snail kind, but not evidence of evolution. They still have the same DNA which allows that variety.

This leads to another question, “are the index fossils a reliable way to date rock layers over billions of years of history if scientists can’t agree on the classification of living creatures today?”[viii]

Ph.D. geologist Steven A. Austin also describes how index fossils often have a large range of layers where they can be found and that the geologic record has many inconsistencies of fossils and rocks in places that they shouldn’t be.[ix] There are many examples that “as more and more fossils are found, the ranges of fossils keep increasing.”[x] So those fossils are less of a pinpoint to how old something is. Austin explains how the geologic record is not as cut and dry and simple as evolution would assume by saying “strata systems are believed in some places to be inverted, repeated, or inserted where they do not belong.”[xi]

The jumbled and ordered nature of the rock layers and fossils alongside of the fact of many missing transitional fossils provide better evidence of a massive global flood rather than slow build up of layers over millions of years.

 

What the Bible Says: Genesis 6:17, Genesis 7-9

 

http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/geotime/fossils.html  

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[i] Index Fossils, Enchanted Learning, http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/dinosaurs/glossary/IndexFossils.shtml, accessed October 8, 2013.

[ii] Dating Rock Layers, Genesis Park, http://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/fossils/dating/, accessed October 8, 2013. Quoting Glencoe, Biology Textbook, 1994, pp. 306-307.

[iii] Deep Time, PBS, http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/change/deeptime/, accessed October 8, 2013.

[iv] Roger Patterson, Evolution Exposed: Earth Science, Chapter 6: Geologic Column, January 20, 2011, http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/ee2/geologic-column, accessed October 8, 2013.

Index Fossils, Enchanted Learning, http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/dinosaurs/glossary/IndexFossils.shtml, accessed October 8, 2013.

[v] John C. Whitcomb and Hemry M. Morris, The Genesis Flood: The Biblical Record and Its Scientific Implications, P & R Publishing, October 20, 1982.

[vi] Henry Morris, Ph.D., The Profusion of Living Fossils, Institute for Creation Research, http://www.icr.org/article/774/, accessed October 8, 2013.

[vii] Roger Patterson, Evolution Exposed: Earth Science, Chapter 6: Geologic Column, January 20, 2011, http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/ee2/geologic-column, accessed October 8, 2013.

Andrew Snelling, Geological Conflict: Young Radiocarbon Date for Ancient Fossil Wood Challenges Fossil Dating, March 1, 2000, Answers in Genesis, http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/cm/v22/n2/geology, accessed October 8, 2013.

[viii] Roger Patterson, Evolution Exposed: Earth Science, Chapter 6: Geologic Column, January 20, 2011, http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/ee2/geologic-column, accessed October 8, 2013.

[ix] Dr. Gary Parker, Creation: Facts of Life, How Fast?, January 1, 1994, http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/cfl/how-fast, accessed October 10, 2013.

[x] John Woodmorappe, The fossil record: Becoming more random all the time, Creation Ministries International, http://creation.com/the-fossil-record, accessed October 8, 2013.

[xi] Steven A. Austin, Ph.D., Ten Misconceptions about the Geologic Column, Institute for Creation Research, http://www.icr.org/article/242/107/, accessed October 8, 2013.